tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post8643887466534961666..comments2023-05-11T04:57:33.365-07:00Comments on Trees For Lunch: Proving my point for meUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-41822962311282005982010-03-24T07:27:39.519-07:002010-03-24T07:27:39.519-07:00There was a war on. All countries involved taught ...<i>There was a war on. All countries involved taught nutrition as important.</i><br /><br />But ant wars being fought by this country right now G20, arent affecting consumption at home.. <br /><br />The assemblyman even states outright that he's doing so to reduce costs.<br /><br /><i> Let us look at the "discoveries" he has made recently. Nazis were gay</i><br /><br />No, that the Nazi leadership skewed disproportionately gay. especially early on in their movement.<br /><br /><i>actually using health promotion for people makes you all under the control of Fascists, which by the way, are an example of the extreme left, not right</i><br /><br />You're beginning to see the 'left-right' light Tink. Look up and see if conservatives are advocating any such measures.<br /><br /><i>And, George W Bush was not a dictator</i><br /><br />What what you posit to support that he wasnt?<br /><br /><i>and the corporations are not trying to control the people</i><br /><br />Google "corporatism" along with "fascism' and read what pops up.<br /><br /><i> all of us folks of the "Atheist Faith"(my favorite, and perhaps the most telling) are on that left of fascists.</i><br /><br />I'm aware of at least one website of atheist conservatives. Do you think that most atheists are to the right of the political spectrum?J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-28646321787260078922010-03-23T07:55:21.399-07:002010-03-23T07:55:21.399-07:00We all need the wonders of JD to look at history. ...We all need the wonders of JD to look at history. Let us look at the "discoveries" he has made recently. Nazis were gay.... And, actually using health promotion for people makes you all under the control of Fascists, which by the way, are an example of the extreme left, not right. And, George W Bush was not a dictator, and the corporations are not trying to control the people. And, all of us folks of the "Atheist Faith"(my favorite, and perhaps the most telling) are on that left of fascists.<br /><br />You are trolling my friend. You are not even trying.tinkbell13https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322413631736929191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-33082481359146835132010-03-22T23:40:14.669-07:002010-03-22T23:40:14.669-07:00There was a war on. All countries involved taught...There was a war on. All countries involved taught nutrition as important.Glen20https://www.blogger.com/profile/09639357470728423171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-50428760682495634242010-03-22T19:17:09.252-07:002010-03-22T19:17:09.252-07:00The early movement skewed highly homosexual.
The ...The early movement skewed highly homosexual.<br /><br />The salt ban would be keeping with the "Nutrition "is not a private matter" mindset of the Nazis.<br /><br />I don't care what you eat Chris. Neither would Rush Limbaugh I would imagine. Just look at the guy.J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-1572292962241993512010-03-20T16:53:41.764-07:002010-03-20T16:53:41.764-07:00You are still not understanding the difference bet...You are still not understanding the difference between an ideology and the result of that ideology.Jill Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709781291030655732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-71964284277704615262010-03-20T16:53:02.879-07:002010-03-20T16:53:02.879-07:00Where does Anarcho-syndicalism fit on the "JD...Where does Anarcho-syndicalism fit on the "JD Curtis Freedom scale" and on the actual political spectrum.<br /><br />When you say "A more accurate assessment (IMO) would show that freedom increases for individuals as they move away from big-government and more towards less government intrusion into their lives." do you mean that if the govenment consisted of one person, freedom is near maximized?Jill Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13709781291030655732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-20289956489230836612010-03-20T15:43:53.379-07:002010-03-20T15:43:53.379-07:00Anarchism still sounds like government "shoul...Anarchism still sounds like government "should be abolished".J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-43548339093517116052010-03-20T13:47:22.779-07:002010-03-20T13:47:22.779-07:00And yet this definition of "anarchism' so...<i>And yet this definition of "anarchism' sounds quite like anarchy</i>.<br /><br />No it doesn't.<br /><br />Anarchism is a political philosophy, an ideology, a doctrine. Anarchy is what will happen if this ideology is followed.ATVLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429750754446304918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-90531887313224345362010-03-20T11:42:48.143-07:002010-03-20T11:42:48.143-07:00And yet this definition of "anarchism' so...And yet this definition of "anarchism' sounds quite like anarchy. From The Free Dictionary...<br /><br />Anarchism: <i>n.</i> 1. The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.<br />2. Active resistance and terrorism against the state, as used by some anarchists.<br />3. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority: <i>"He was inclined to anarchism; he hated system and organization and uniformity" (Bertrand Russell)</i>.J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-45423957448002076242010-03-19T20:14:06.748-07:002010-03-19T20:14:06.748-07:00A more accurate assessment (IMO) would show that f...<i>A more accurate assessment (IMO) would show that freedom increases for individuals as they move away from big-government and more towards less government intrusion into their lives</i>.<br /><br />Maybe you can call it the JD Curtis Freedom scale, either way it's not the Left/Right political spectrum. <br /><br /><i>Since there is literally no government, I wouldnt even put it (anarchy) on a political spectrum</i>.<br /><br />Anarchism, not anarchy.<br />It's like the difference between conservatism and conservation. <br /><br />Wiki: <br /><i>Anarchism is often considered to be a radical left-wing ideology,[8][9] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflect anti-statist interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism or participatory economics. However, anarchism has always included an individualist strain [10] supporting a market economy and private property, or morally unrestrained egoism</i>. <br /><br />and<br /><br /><i>Anarchism is a political philosophy with many heterogeneous and diverse schools of thought, united by a common opposition to <b>compulsory</b> government</i>.ATVLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429750754446304918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-72647139125732665212010-03-19T19:45:39.026-07:002010-03-19T19:45:39.026-07:00I rememberr my U.S. History teacher in High School...I rememberr my U.S. History teacher in High School recounted how Hitler said to Stalin: "The scum of the Earth, I believe?" and Stalin replied: "The bloody assassin of the workers, I presume?"<br /><br />And then my history teacher said, "And they were both right."The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-60364378863951866422010-03-19T19:39:33.321-07:002010-03-19T19:39:33.321-07:00JD:
If I understand you correctly, you see fascism...JD:<br />If I understand you correctly, you see fascism as not on the far right of the spectrum, but on the far left, albeit to the right of communism. I guess you can make that argument if you redefine the traditionally understood left-right spectrum to mean left = statism/opppression, right = individual liberty.<br /><br />I think we agree in concept that both communism and fascism represent state oppression, though the latter perhaps not as much. Instead of completely expropriating private industry, Mussolini only gave the state 51% ownership!<br /><br />My point was slightly different. Namely, the insistence on viewing communism and fascism along the political left-right spectrum, with American liberalism and conserative as somewhere in between, simply does not work. The two extremes have actually come full circle and are remarkably similar in their government oppression and statism. <br /><br />Either way, we are still in agreement in our abhorrence of statism in whatever form it takes and our love for individual liberty.The Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-87168959089344545242010-03-19T17:32:47.936-07:002010-03-19T17:32:47.936-07:00Where does Anarchism fit on your new political spe...<i>Where does Anarchism fit on your new political spectrum?</i><br /><br />Anarchy: (from answers.com) "1.Absence of any form of political authority."<br /><br />Since there is literally no government, I wouldnt even put it (anarchy) on a political spectrum.<br /><br /><i>The left-right political spectrum is not about the size of the government. That is not what it is a measure of</i><br /><br />A more accurate assessment (IMO) would show that freedom increases for individuals as they move away from big-government and more towards less government intrusion into their lives.<br /><br /><i>Take away our salt, we will call you Nazi's. Sigh.</i><br /><br />Well, I see we've come full-circle here. Who was it that said "Nutrition "is not a private matter"?<br /><br />A. Nazis<br />B. Reaganites, or<br />C. Libertarians?J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-88171333523205001562010-03-19T14:28:30.065-07:002010-03-19T14:28:30.065-07:00I think the sad reality here is that nobody wants ...I think the sad reality here is that nobody wants to be on the end of the spectrum that identifies more of it's policies with 1930's National Socialists.<br /><br />Sad but true. A very poignant look into post George Bush America. Take away our salt, we will call you Nazi's. Sigh.tinkbell13https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322413631736929191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-2336016472298645692010-03-19T11:46:21.040-07:002010-03-19T11:46:21.040-07:00Now look at this political spectrum and tell me wh...<i>Now look at this political spectrum and tell me what you think..</i>.<br /><br />Where does Anarchism fit on your new political spectrum?<br /><br /><i>It may run counter to the so-called "conventional wisdom", howvever, one is left to explain how Hitler leap-frogs reagan and we get back to more big government when moving from left to right on the political spectrum</i>. <br /><br />The left-right political spectrum is not about the size of the government. That is not what it is a measure of.<br /><br /><i>I think the sad reality here is that nobody wants to be on the end of the spectrum that identifies more of it's policies with 1930's National Socialists</i>.<br /><br />Now there is a revealing statement.ATVLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429750754446304918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-80002673954246013092010-03-19T06:29:32.977-07:002010-03-19T06:29:32.977-07:00JD- At least it is an approach
But the "salt...<i>JD- At least it is an approach</i><br /><br />But the "salt thing dooms those who have the ability to take the fork out of their mouths to eating dull, bland food and the other method only affects those who are obese.<br /><br /><i>That's not how the political spectrum which has been in place for hundreds of years works</i><br /><br />It may run counter to the so-called "conventional wisdom", howvever, one is left to explain how Hitler leap-frogs reagan and we get back to more big government when moving from left to right on the political spectrum. <br /><br />I think the sad reality here is that nobody wants to be on the end of the spectrum that identifies more of it's policies with 1930's National Socialists.J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-31741536866372158102010-03-19T00:02:39.864-07:002010-03-19T00:02:39.864-07:00That's not how the political spectrum which ha...That's not how the political spectrum which has been in place for hundreds of years works.ATVLChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429750754446304918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-52935438443066459462010-03-18T20:23:23.986-07:002010-03-18T20:23:23.986-07:00JD- At least it is an approach.JD- At least it is an approach.tinkbell13https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322413631736929191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-39014146286398861972010-03-18T19:33:39.715-07:002010-03-18T19:33:39.715-07:00MDC, you bought up a couple of interesting points,...MDC, you bought up a couple of interesting points, such as...<br /><br /><i> My point all along has been that both the left and right extremes—communism and fascism respectively--are equally repressive</i><br /><br />This is where we disagree. I mentioned the book <i>Liberal Fascism</i> to you in the past and I hope that you get yourself a copy. Fascism is a left wing ideology. Think about it.<br /><br />Communism: (From Merriam-Webster) "a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production"<br /><br />Fascism: (from Answers.com/Business Dictionary) "Doctrine; collection of concepts; and dictatorship by government of a country, often involving hostile nationalistic attitudes, racism, <b>and private economic ownership under rigid government control</b>.<br /><br />Conservativism: (from Answers.com/Philosophy Dictionary) "conservatism can be taken to imply a <b>laissez-faire ideology of untrammelled individualism that puts the emphasis on personal responsibility, free markets, law and order, and a minimal role for government</b><br /><br />Now look at this political spectrum and tell me what you think...<br /><br />Communism (state-owned and run industry)-->Fascism (State heavily regulates and influences industry and wants individuals to be subjugated to the State)-->Conservatism (think "small-government, Ronald Reagan conservatism" where there is less government involvement in business regulation and in peoples lives)<br /><br />Sure, Hitler and Mussolini were to the right of the Soviet Union, but it's not very hard at all to be to the right of Marxists-Leninists.J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-26505836918126997452010-03-18T19:04:28.996-07:002010-03-18T19:04:28.996-07:00Tink, less intrusive, I think, than banning chefs ...Tink, less intrusive, I think, than banning chefs from using salt would be this idea by the state of Alabama for employeees on their health plan...<br /><br />"The state of Alabama has given its 37,527 employees until 2010 to start getting fit -- or they'll pay $25 a month for insurance that otherwise is free.<br /><br />Alabama will be the first state to charge its overweight workers who don't try to slim down, while a handful of other states reward employees who adopt healthful behaviors.<br /><br />Alabama already charges workers who smoke -- and has seen some success in getting them to quit -- but now has turned its attention to a problem that plagues many people in the Deep South: obesity" <a href="http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/AlabamaHitsObeseWorkersWithFee.aspx" rel="nofollow">Link</a>. It seems to be more of a carrot-stick approach.J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-83526886205565702072010-03-17T21:26:54.542-07:002010-03-17T21:26:54.542-07:00Actually, MCT, I can agree with you on one thing. ...Actually, MCT, I can agree with you on one thing. If I had to live under George W Bush, I probably would fear government control also. I have never had the "privilege", and every so often I try to remind myself of this so that I can have some empathy for the paranoia that seems to characterize the American public.<br /><br />My point is is this- There has to be something done to protect the public, both from themselves, and the corporations that continue to exploit you and make you sick.My point, all along has been to actually be critical of what you are critiquing. On the bus today, on my way to work, I looked at a billboard advertising salt restriction. In Canada, you cannot even buy cigarettes in the open. They are behind the cash in a locked panel. I have no problem having regulations placed on these things. Sometimes, it just has to be done.<br /><br />JD- you do not get it. They need to stop salting food altogether. They are actually putting the onus on the individual to determine it, not having it given it to you like that. It is actually giving you control, which is something that I would think that you would like.tinkbell13https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322413631736929191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-61625728471446067552010-03-17T18:20:53.962-07:002010-03-17T18:20:53.962-07:00Sigh. To respond or not to respond? Oh well, her...Sigh. To respond or not to respond? Oh well, here goes.<br /><br />I thought that the general thrust of this post had to do with whether the left or the right side of the political spectrum was more oppressive. My point all along has been that both the left and right extremes—communism and fascism respectively--are equally repressive. In fact, both of them are socialist-statist-collectivist in their basic philosophy, elevating the power of the state over the rights of the individual. The only difference I see between the two is that fascism is more nationalistic in nature. After all, “Nazi” and “National Socialism” are practically synonymous, as are Communism and International Socialism. Though they are viewed respectively as two extremes of right and left, when you examine each system’s power of the state over the individual, they are remarkably similar.<br /><br />You seem to be hung up on the health and food issue and, as I said before, we do not disagree. I am very health conscious. But I exercise my free choice when I decide to not patronize MacDonalds. I asked what I thought was a very fair question:<br /><br />“Tell me, who are the anointed ones who are not so stupid, who possess the wisdom of the ages and should therefore have the right to tell the rest of us how to live our lives? What are their qualifications? Once they have been given the right to tell us what to eat, what other aspects of our lives will they be given the right to regulate? Where will it stop?”<br /><br />Indeed, where will it stop? You believe it is legitimate for the government to regulate the salt content of the food you eat, but unless you are pristine and pure as a fresh driven snow, how will you react when the government decides to start regulating your pet vice? <br /><br />Again, we can all agree on the desirability of certain outcomes, whether they be health and proper food intake or general welfare of society, but the question is how to achieve noble ends without giving too much power to the government. Frederic Bastiat said it well: <br /><br />“Because we ask so little from the law — only justice — the socialists thereby assume that we reject fraternity, unity, organization, and association. The socialists brand us with the name individualist. But we assure the socialists that we repudiate only forced organization, not natural organization. <br /><br />"We repudiate the forms of association that are forced upon us, not free association. We repudiate forced fraternity, not true fraternity. We repudiate the artificial unity that does nothing more than deprive persons of individual responsibility. We do not repudiate the natural unity of mankind under Providence. …<br /><br />"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. “<br /><br />I get very uncomfortable about a government—particularly a far away central government that is not immediately accountable to the will of the citizenry (as would a state or local government)—to inject its mandates into the lives of individuals and entities. The American philosophy of government is that the government that governs the best governs the least. Alas, that used to be the American philosophy of government. If only it were still so.<br /><br />http://mdcrustacean.blogspot.com/2010/02/required-reading.htmlThe Maryland Crustaceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309250912148013290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-45135787511275021482010-03-17T15:38:07.898-07:002010-03-17T15:38:07.898-07:00Now, what's your point?
OK, Jill, let's t...<i>Now, what's your point?</i><br /><br />OK, Jill, let's take this slowly. First, 2 questions to you.<br /><br />1. Do you think that Communism as practiced by the former U.S.S.R. is to the left or right of the political spectrum?<br /><br />2. Was Ronald Reagan to the right of the Communists?J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-70465688834065869382010-03-17T15:34:32.712-07:002010-03-17T15:34:32.712-07:00No matter how much you sneer and patronize, you ar...<i>No matter how much you sneer and patronize, you are dead wrong, and have no argument back. No matter how you deflect, bad food will kill you</i><br /><br />The thrust or the argument put forward by Ortiz is that chefs cannot use salt in cooking...at all.<br /><br />Salt shakers on the tables would be (generously) permitted, of course. Who knows if the individual will lavish even more salt on the food that comes to the table, with the shaker, then they would have received if the chef had been allowed to use it in his recipe?J Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12746127431922685446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4434842591971703006.post-81944279109986860432010-03-16T18:46:45.097-07:002010-03-16T18:46:45.097-07:00@MCT- So far, you have listed no argument about co...@MCT- So far, you have listed no argument about content. You have no defense except for two things. Which, is very clearly a concrete issue to you.<br /><br />1. The government is controlling your life by attempting to protect you from the Frankensteinsh toxic substances that your nation calls food. And, to some extent we do too because of the American influence on our lives. However, we have regulation in place.<br /><br />2. It is okay because you believe that having a corporation control is better than the government, even though the corporations have rendered it impossible for any such action to occur.<br /><br />Nevertheless, and Jill is right. No matter how much you sneer and patronize, you are dead wrong, and have no argument back. No matter how you deflect, bad food will kill you. So, keep eating your beef, drink your your American milk. Enjoy your liberty at McDonalds with all of the sodium that a body can take. Good luck to you the next time you have an infection and require an antibiotic.tinkbell13https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322413631736929191noreply@blogger.com