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Wednesday, January 20, 2010

T.A.O.B.D: An Actual Response

Yesterday's entry left off with me asking "Tinkbell" three honest questions that, with minimal effort, she would be able to provide the answers to. Her intellectually shameful dodging of the obvious answers aside, RJW of The Old Geezer blog was kind enough to take the time to answer one of the questions that Tink is currently dodging. When I asked RJW the question, "Who was Telemachus and what practice did he end?, he answered in very short order and this was his reply.


"Saint Telemachus was a monk who, according to the Church historian Theodoret, tried to stop a gladiator fight in a Roman amphitheatre, and was stoned to death by the crowd. The Christian Emperor Honorius however was impressed by the monk's martyrdom and it spurred him to issue an edict banning gladiator fights. The last known gladiator fight in Rome was on January 1, 404 AD, so this is usually given as the date of Telemachus' martyrdom"

There, you see Tinkbell? It wasnt so difficult after all. Telemachus was a Christian monk who is credited with being the person who put an end to the bloody gladiator contests of Rome. He wasnt a pagan, Visigoth or Vandel, but a Christian. That's all. Why you had to behave so completely evasive in avoiding this answer is a question for another time. RJW didnt have any problem at all answering it. Then again, RJW by answering this question did not have any fear that the answer might cast Christianity in a different light from his worldview and thusly have to answer other questions as well. If Christianity can be shown to having caused something positive for the world in this case, then might there be other instances in which the mindset of modern, Western Democracies was initially formed by the movement began by followers of a certain carpenter from Nazereth? We can't have that now, can we Tink? That might cause the whole entire ball to unravel and I would imagine you are much more comfortable inside the cocoon that forms your bias than honestly examining it.

14 comments:

tinkbell13 said...

This has nothing to do with me dodging questions.

You are intellectually lazy and sloppy and you need to do research yourself.

Ginx said...

I forgot the name of the Christian who stopped the witch burnings...

JD Curtis said...

This has nothing to do with me dodging questions

I'm sorry. Which of your umpteen timestamped entries from yesterday answered the direct questions that I put to you?

I forgot the name of the Christian who stopped the witch burnings

He probably should have spoken to these guys. Link

Almeidinha said...

What's the point in asking this question?
( "Who was Telemachus and what practice did he end?").

JD Curtis said...

Bienvenido al discussion Almeidinha. Apparently Tink has some idea that paganism was a good thing, comparing pagans to the Rebel Alliance and Christianity to the Empire using Star Wars terminology. I think that when compared to Christianity, the pre-Christian world was much, much worse. It's an idea of her's that I will bury under an avalanche of facts and stunning details and trust me, this is only the first installment in what I hope to will be an interesting series.

Youre welcome to join in.

Save the I'm Brazilian and speak Portugese, not Spanish statement. All of mis amigos Mineros moved back to Governador Valedares and I have no one to speak Portugese with anymore.

Ginx said...

I'm not defending Islam. I don't like that religion any more than Christianity. Just because Islam has some visible fanatics does not really address anything having to do with the atrocities committed by Christians. It is not an indictment of Christianity, only clear evidence that Christianity is not a silver bullet answer to all of society's ills, nor is a theocracy desirable.

It's interesting that Democracy only emerged from Christian societies when they began looking back to the Greeks and Romans...

Almeidinha said...

I asked because I'm not sure why that would "scare" tinkbell13 or make her "dodge it".
I mean, I don't think anyone ever tried to discredit every christian action. Nobody said that every single one can't be good or anything like that. But then again, the fact that one christian did a good thing doesn't mean that christianity is the perfect religion. Several people did and do good things, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily Christians does it?
You can't justify a belief only with the actions of one that shares it.
This is also true regarding "bad actions".
Hearing this story made me respect this person. Not the religion. True, it shows that good people can come from it, but good people can come from anywhere. =P
P.s: if you want I'd be happy to help you practice your portuguese =)
You know the "I'm Brazilian and speak Portugese, not Spanish statement." is usually used because many people don't know that portuguese is the language in Brazil. =P
Because of that brazilians sometimes get angry about it. That's what I think at least.

JD Curtis said...

I'm not defending Islam. I don't like that religion any more than Christianity

The fellow practicioners of your non-theistic religion on the other side of the Atlantic would disagree. It seems that they are reaching out to Christians to help stop Sharia Law. Link

Just because Islam has some visible fanatics does not really address anything having to do with the atrocities committed by Christians

Oh puh-leez Ginx. Atheists are quite good at pointing out the exagerrated crimes of Christianity and often have to point to something that happened 300-900 years ago. for comparison...

How many Catholics have ever intentionally flown planes into buildings?

How many Baptist suicide bombers have ever detonated their explosives in a public square maiming women and children?

How about the recent spate of beheadings committed by the Anabaptists?

Or the roving bands of Presbyterians currently terrorizing Mogadishu?

The answer of course is that none of these things are occurring, however if you replace the Christian denomination in the above faux examples with the word "Muslim" then every one of these things are occuring in the world today.

Christianity is not a silver bullet answer to all of society's ills

Ultimately PEOPLE must step up to the plate and try to make society better. Their worldview will affect any decisions they make in this regard.

Thomas Sowell (who I link to on the right) wrote an entire book on the subject entitled A Conflict of Visions. In it, he describes both Constrained visions for society and Unconstrained. "Constrained" would mean that by nature, man is selfish and unchangeing. "Unconstrained" would mean that man is malleable and perfectable. These worldviews have been in competition for centuries. If you don't want to buy the book, here is a 6 minute you-tube video of him describing it.

The Founding Fathers here in the US adhered to the "constrained" theory and put checks and balances in place in our system of government to help prevent tyranny.

JD Curtis said...

the fact that one christian did a good thing doesn't mean that christianity is the perfect religion

It might be difficult for different people to totally agree on what a "perfect" religion is. I'm not arguing just one thing though. I can name numerous examples. The fact that tink doesnt wish to discuss the matter is disappointing. I don't mind at all critically examining my worldview/beliefs.

Hearing this story made me respect this person. Not the religion. True, it shows that good people can come from it, but good people can come from anywhere.

What I hope to show is that this same religion, Christianity, keeps coming up again and again in terms of helping better society, advancing good causes and forming the very basis of the Western Civilizations that we live in and frankly, sometimes don't appreciate or understand the history of. I have a couple of books on the subject. If this is interesting to people, I might make a whole series out of it.

the "I'm Brazilian and speak Portugese, not Spanish statement." is usually used because many people don't know that portuguese is the language in Brazil. =P

Nao tem problema. I used to have quite a vocabulary of Portugese words. Like anything else though, if you don't use it, you lose it. There are numerous Brazilians in the area I live in although I don't know many of them personally. Me encanta rodizio. Did you ever see Tropa de Elite? I think the whole thing is on you-tube in segments. Capitao Nascimento is the best.


Where's Tink?

Ginx said...

You're sick of me bringing up stuff that happened 300-900 years ago? Shut the fuck up about Jesus then. What's that been, almost 2000 years and you're still waiting?

JD Curtis said...

I would try to keep my criticisms current. That's all. Geez, what happened to you? Did AE wake you out of a sound sleep after running out of gefilte fish last night to send you trundling to the corner grocery in the cold or something?

tinkbell13 said...

OMG- JD You really are just a big, stupid doofus.

Apparently Tink has some idea that paganism was a good thing, comparing pagans to the Rebel Alliance and Christianity to the Empire using Star Wars terminology. I think that when compared to Christianity, the pre-Christian world was much, much worse. It's an idea of her's that I will bury under an avalanche of facts and stunning details and trust me, this is only the first installment in what I hope to will be an interesting series.

That was not what I said at all. Because I put it in a metaphor that was used by Joseph Campbell, does not mean that I take any responsibility for your two year old interpretation of what I wrote. I said, that, the Canonization of the Bible was set up for specific reasons, which you clearly dismissed. And, then like a little kid, instead of looking at the opposing histories, you wanted to focus on the barbarians outside of the Christian Empire to show how the establishment of this religion delivered people from evil. I would not play along because you refuse to listen to anything I said.

I know that you like to argue. And, I know that your patriarchal inflated from Christianity ego is more bruised by a female challenging you. I only engage in debate with a person who I can learn from. Call me selfish, but there is nothing to learn from you. You really need to slow down and listen to other people.

tinkbell13 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tinkbell13 said...

JD... If you are ever seriously interested in learning anything constructive about any of these issues, I would be more than happy to provide you with some reading or some credible websites. But, i will not engage in any "debate" with you any longer. Clearly, you do not read what I am writing and I am totally wasting my time. And, I have do not have time to freely give away like this.

I am not interested in debating someone who is not even able to agree what the topic of debate is. Because you are so busy being defensive, you have totally misunderstood everything that I have said or tried to tell you. So, if you actually become interested in expanding your understanding of mythology, religious history, or the Canonization of the Bible, I will be happy to assist you in seeking more information. Otherwise, I got more important things to do that may actually help me learn something. You will have to find someone else to do the Jerry Springer thing with cause it ain't gonna be this girl.

Peace out.