Where's the birth certificate

Free and Strong America

Saturday, August 21, 2010

What Religion is Barack Obama?


"There are elections in America now. Along came a black citizen of Kenyan African origins, a Muslim, who had studied in an Islamic school in Indonesia."
Col. Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi, June 11th, 2008

Takes one to know one, right? Heh-heh. Well, let's not so glibly dismiss this assertion by the leader of Libya when we can examine what Obama has said and what actions he has performed in order to form a hypothesis as to what religious beliefs Obama adheres to, if any.

Earlier this week, a Pew poll came out indicating that 18% of Americans believe that Obama is a Muslim. Not to be outdone, another pole by TIME magazine put out this past week indicates that the actual percentage of Americans that believe that Obama is a Muslim is closer to 24%. The second (TIME) poll was conducted after the president weighed in with his support of the Ground Zero Victory Hamasque in lower Manhattan, 2 blocks away from where the World Trade Center once was. (NOTE: To get an idea of how eerily close the Hamasque supporters want to set up camp next to Ground Zero, this link provides an aerial photo that really puts it into perspective).

This polling data caused White House spokeman Bill Burton to state 2 days ago that "The president is obviously a Christian. He prays everyday." I don't know about you, but I was never under the impression that the act of prayer was something that fell exclusively within the realm of Christianity.

Rush Limbaugh chimed in on his daily radio program and offered up his take on the statements by Burton...

"So nothing is "obvious" about Obama's Christianity, Mr. Burton, and the telltale sign is that you even have to say it. We're polling it! You see, Obama's Christianity is the opposite of obvious. "What do you mean by that, Limbaugh? What do you mean! How can you sit there and say 'Obama's Christianity is the opposite of obvious'?" Well, glad you asked. Let me 'splain it. He has a Muslim name: "Barack Hussein Obama." He had a Muslim father and an extended Muslim family in Kenya. He was partly raised and educated in Indonesia by a Muslim stepfather. He has Muslim half-sisters and brothers, one of whom continues to reside in a three-by-five-foot hut in Kenya. His mother was a self-proclaimed and unaffiliated atheist. Obama professed no religion and belonged to no church until he joined Reverend Wright's Trinity Church in Chicago....

They're going to great lengths. But he's not "obviously" a Christian. We have to take that on (ahem) faith, if I may use the word. We have to accept his Christianity on faith, to believe that he's telling us the truth because his Christianity is not obvious by any intellectually coherent definition of the word. (interruption) Well, no... The reason why some people are confused is Obama has spent 20 years listening to a racist, bigoted preacher who has a special place in his heart for the Nation of Islam who used to be a Muslim. It's not obvious, Mr. Burton, that your guy is a Christian."

There are those that point to Obama's former affiliation with Jeremiah Wright's traveling sideshow Church of Christ as evidence of Obama's claimed Christianity. However it is seldom brought up that Wright himself is a former Muslim as indicated by Limbaugh. In fact, Jeremiah Wright once sat down for a little of the old face-to-face with the aforementioned Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi on a trip to Libya with the contraversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan in 1984.
  • Does anyone else here remember Nicholas Kristof's 2007 interview with then candidate Obama in which "Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

  • And who could forget the 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulis in which Obama openly referred to his "Muslim faith"?

  • Additionally, we can recall how NASA director Charles Bolden was told by Obama that "he wanted to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering." and thus we are left to puzzle over how such a self-esteem project geared toward a particular religion would be viewed by the Left if such efforts were trying to uplift Christianity or any other religion for that matter.

  • Throwing more gasoline onto the speculative fires was writer Jack Cashill's article this past week in which he informs us "“Barry was a Muslim,” his (Obama's) third grade teacher told the Los Angeles Times in 2007, but this was a rare acknowledgement by the media. In general, they approached the subject in damage control mode."

All of this evidence begins to pile up quite quickly and it seems not only quite reasonable to wonder what Obama's beliefs are but to examine if they could be anything BUT Islamic in nature. Not that that in and of itself would necessarily be a bad thing. It would just reflect upon the perceived honesty of a man who, it seems, might embrace anything from the non-theistic belief system of his parents to liberal Christianity to Islam in order to proffer up the image that he thinks provides him with the best political leverage in whatever situation he so happens to find himself in.

"The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim,"
Egyptian Foreign Minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, April 2010











72 comments:

Froggie said...

"The second (TIME) poll was conducted after the president weighed in with his support of the Ground Zero Victory Hamasque in lower Manhattan, 2 blocks away from where the World Trade Center once was."

BO did not support a ground zero victory Hamasque, he was defending the constitution which he took an oath to do on his swearing in.

Nobody is dsputing their right to build this mosque.

Accusing BO of being a muslim with all this lame innuendo (like the church he went to all those years not being to your liking) is just another example of the absurd conspiricy theories invented by the far right fringe.

JD Curtis said...

How was Obama "defending the Constitution"?

There are alot of places they could build a mosque, why make one so close to Ground Zero?

Accusing BO of being a muslim with all this lame innuendo (like the church he went to all those years not being to your liking) is just another example of the absurd conspiricy theories invented by the far right fringe

"In December 2007, the Trinity United Church of Christ (TUCC) bestowed its highest social achievement award upon Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Nation of Islam. This was facilitated through the church's publication Trumpet Magazine and presented at their end of the year awards gala. The award dubbed the Lifetime Achievement "Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. Trumpet" Award is named after the head pastor that married Barack and Michele Obama nee Robinson." Link

So I guess you want me to believe that Obama was completely oblivious to the hatred spewed forth by the likes of Wright and Farrakhan for YEARS before it finally dawned on him that he was attending anything but a mainstream church?

JD Curtis said...

So do you think it, shall we say, "normal" for a church to give out an award to Farrakhan?

Froggie said...

I think that by the statistics you quoted 75% of Americans remain sane and rational.

JC Birthner said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JD Curtis said...

You still didnt answer froggie, is it considered "normal" for a church to give an award to Louis Farrakhan?

JD Curtis said...

Muslim born Miss USA says Victory Mosque too close to Ground Zero

JD Curtis said...

Muslim agitators are already holding prayer services inside of the proposed site for the Ground Zero Victory Hamasque

Christ Follower (no longer) said...

"Ground Zero Victory Hamasque"?
It's name is Park51

ATVLC said...

If Obama is a Muslim, he's a not a very observant one.
He's not following the five pillars of Islam (except possibly the call to give charity).

Instead he spends twenty years going to a Christian church.

ATVLC said...

"Victory Hamasque"?

I think this quote applies:
"It’s just a lie that was told to you by people who wanted you to be afraid, upset, and hurt. People who wanted to manipulate your tender emotions to inspire contempt for the government."

From here:
3 Reasons the “Ground Zero Mosque” Debate Makes No Sense
It's worth a read.

JD Curtis said...

Please tell me what "Christian church" goes around honoring the likes of Louis Farrakhan.

Froggie said...

JD Curtis said...
I said, "I think that by the statistics you quoted 75% of Americans remain sane and rational."

You said, "What?"

Your quote:

"......another pole by TIME magazine put out this past week indicates that the actual percentage of Americans that believe that Obama is a Muslim is closer to 24%."

Obviously, that leaves 76% of Americans that remain sane and logical.

The Maryland Crustacean said...

Well, done, J.D., notwithstanding the cackles from the faithful Greek chorus. I for one am still agnostic on Obama's religion as well as his place of birth, but the red flags and unanswered questions do seem to accumulate. In either case, he remains a horrible and inexperienced president whose values are hopelessly out of touch with the American people and our history and heritage.

Froggie said...

JD,

As to the location of the mosque, it is two full blocks away from GZ., and will be balely visible from the top of the new Trade Center.

American citizens have the full guarantee of the constitution to build this mosque.

Even New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a Republican, called on all parties to quit using the issue “as a political football” and warned that “we cannot paint all of Islam with that brush (terrorism) … we have to bring people together.”
As a fellow with a presumed future in the party, Christie deserves credit for willingness to break with GOP election-year orthodoxy.

It is my opinion that the GOP is pandering and using prejudice on the issue, as the Washington Post seemed to do in an editorial last week.

I also think that this will be shown in the future to be a most concerted effort at using demagoguery to try to discredit the president.

Having said all that, the redeeming factor on all this is that the people will vote this November and in November of 2012 and their voices shall be heard.

The pendulum of democracy is very heavy, yet swings in all directions as the earth turns beneath it.

Gregg said...

First, there is no biblical evidence to demonstrate that Obama is a Christian. Christian comes from the word Christos - it means a follower, an adherent, a disciple of Christ.

Being born in America, being baptized, attending or joining a church, etc. does not make one a Christian anymore than if I sat in my garage all night - I would not wake up a Buick. Calling myself a Buick is as tragic, ridiculous, and inaccurate as saying one is a Christian because they believe in God, Jesus, joined a churhc, submited to baptism.

An adherent, a follower, a disciple of Christ is one who has renounced and and all efforts of self-righteousness and works and by faith fully trusts in the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary. Being a Christian is by faith in the person of Christ which results in visible, dectecable, identifiable fruit indicative of the tree sponsoring it. In other words a Christian will resemble Jesus Christ by the fruit that is produced in the life of a Christian by the Holy Spirit.

Obama is not a Christian. Is he religious? Who knows, religious does make one a Christian. Does He attend church? So what? That does not make one a Christian.

Christ Follower (no longer) said...

So who is a Christian according to you, Gregg?

Have any of America's recent presidents been Christians?

JD Curtis said...

Up above, I wrote..

"It would just reflect upon the perceived honesty of a man who, it seems, might embrace anything from the non-theistic belief system of his parents to liberal Christianity to Islam in order to proffer up the image that he thinks provides him with the best political leverage in whatever situation he so happens to find himself in."

Right after posting this, I came across this from Dave Welch.

"It is evident that Barack Hussein Obama is neither a practicing Christian nor practicing Muslim, but an opportunistic politician whose beliefs are shrouded within his political philosophy. He is a religious chameleon – not the first, certainly – whose family, heritage, actions and philosophy are much more pro-Islam than pro-Christianity, however."

I guess great minds think alike :-)

Froggie said...

Ah, yes. Gregg and JD are the arbitors of who is Christian and who are not. I knew it would come down to this.

This is precicely why no religious test is required to hold public office as guaranteed by the constitution, and the reason why religion has failed as a form of governance.

Theology is merely religious philosophy and philosophy is merely words chasing their tail round and round.

Who you guys proclaim or not proclaim to be a Christian matters not one iota.

Get used to it.

JD Curtis said...

"It's hard to reasonably explain Obama's cold relationship with Israel, his inaction in the face of Iran obtaining a nuclear bomb, his giving a green light to the building of a mosque near where Islamic fundamentalists hijacked passenger planes on September 11, 2001, and made them into missiles to destroy the World Trade Center in Manhattan...

One possible explanation,.. is the Islamic principle of Taqiyya – or the sanctioning of hiding one's Muslim faith...

"By converting out of Islam, Obama either became an apostate, a murtadd, in Arabic, or he began engaging in an Islamic-sanctioned deception and thus remained Muslim," says Morse. "If Obama truly left Islam, and actively embraced Christianity, he could be subject to severe penalties under Islamic law including the death sentence. Islamic Shariah law calls for the execution of any Muslim who becomes a murtadd...

The other possibility is that President Obama is engaging in a Taqiyya, which is a lie that is spoken in the greater interest of Islam," says Morse. "There are several quotes in the Quran and the Hadith, the Islamic holy books, that set the conditions under which it is permissible for the Muslim to lie regarding his identity and his intentions when dealing with non-Muslims and the non-Muslim world. Lying is allowed, even encouraged, by the Muslim according to Shariah law, if the lie in some way furthers the agenda of Islam." Chuck Morse, Author of The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism: Adolf Hitler and Haj Amin Al-Husseini

Froggie said...

JD,

I think you have earned a PhD in conspiracy theory.

PhD = Pile Higher and Deeper :>

Gregg said...

@ Christ Follower - Quite frankly I don't know of any "recent" presidents who have been Christians. Ultimately, JD nor I can ever say who for sure isn't or is - we can examine a claim, we can examine fruit, we can look at evidence. Listen, even the Apostle Paul told the Corinthians in II Cor 13:5 to examine, a legal term to test existing evidence to prove a claim, and see if they were Christians. He said this based on their behavior which was not in line with Christlikeness or Christlike behavior.

We live in an age where people can claim what they want and demand no examination. What is that? If you can't match your claim to Scripture then there is something wrong with your claim.

I dont' care if a president is a Christian or not - however, the land is blessed if a righteouss man is in office - but God, who is sovereign raises up and tears down the men who ultimately occupy that office. Righteousness and holiness cannot be legislated.

Read Luke 9 for instance - I nor JD determines who or what a Christian is, Christ did that. I just look at a man's fruit and claim and match that to what Christ set forth.

There is no religious test that will qualify a man to be president. Religon is simply regular behavior - religion or religious does not automtically equate to Christian. This is a term given to believers as a term of derision and ridicule to identify those who followed the teachings of Christ in the city of Antioch.

Froggie, I am use to it. I know that non-believers do not welcome, do not receive, nor understand things that are spiritualy discerned. I don't blame a blind man who walks into a wall, He can't see it.

Froggie said...

Gregg,
"Froggie, I am use to it. I know that non-believers do not welcome, do not receive, nor understand things that are spiritualy discerned. I don't blame a blind man who walks into a wall, He can't see it."

Since your supernatural power of discerment has no effect whatsoever on reality that you can emprically represent, nor does it have any effect upon me, I honor your decision to delude yourself into thinking you have it. Many people do need some imafginary sense of self to feel superior to others. Whatever works for you.

Reynold said...

Is it my imagination or does your country's constitution prohibit having religious tests for public office? In other words, who effing cares what "religion" the man is?

Of course, evangelicals have never really given a rat's ass about the constitution anyway.

The Maryland Crustacean said...

Nice red herring, Reynold. If Mr. Obama is a Muslim that is fine, as long as he comes out and says so and does not try to represent himself as something else. His religious affiliation is the least of my concerns. I am much more concerned about his inexperience and his vision for America that is diametrically opposed to mine and that of most Americans.

Gregg said...

Froggie, I am amused. Humility is a keynote characteristic and attribute of both Christ and a Christian. Unfortunately there are those whose pride is not yet crucified and under the control the Holy Spirit. We as believers are told to be daily putting of the deeds or works of the flesh, the old nature, and crucify them - such as lust, anger, lying, and or pride. I know some haven't and give Christians a bad rap. But I assure you I have no supernatural power of discerment. It is just simple common sense and observation - for example, if you tell me you are a motorcycle enthusiast and I examine your calim and discover you have no motorcycle, no MC license, no MC clothing, no MC material, don't watch it on TV, don't go to events, neve speak of it and on and on, I would conclude that you probably are not a MC enthuiast.

What amuses me is you seem to take the same tactic most "liberals" you disregarded the facts and resorted to ridicule, I have not deluded myself into thinking I have it. Many people do need some imafginary sense of self to feel superior to others. Whatever works for you.

No do I have any superior sense over anyone including you. I am a bond-servant, a slave of Jesus Christ. I am only redeemed because of God's grace and longsuffering. I have no delusions nor sense of granduer.

Froggie said...

Gregg,

I accept and acknowledge your sincere explanation.
Now it is time for you to accept and acknowledge BO's explanation, after having attended regular Christian services for over twenty years, that it has become untenable to attend a regular church service in Washington due to security and the disruptiveness of the solemn time for other Christians.
He has been very clear about this from the beginning.

JD Curtis said...

Now it is time for you to accept and acknowledge BO's explanation, after having attended regular Christian services for over twenty years

Froggie, is it your belief that a supposedly "Christian" church that sends an award to Louis Farrakahn is in any way "regular"?

it has become untenable to attend a regular church service in Washington due to security and the disruptiveness of the solemn time for other Christians

Reagan didnt attend church services regularly after his assasination attempt either. However that didnt stop him from occaisionally bringing the minister to him. And nobody eveR bothered to question if Reagan was a Christian or not.

Gregg said...

Froggie - I don't doubt and never have that it is highly probable that attending a church in WA DC is to disruptive. However, I don't assess BO's being a Christian or non-Christian on whether he attends church in DC or anywhere.

Remember my analogy, (good one or bad one) that sitting in a garage regularly will not make me a Buick.

However, I am sure that if BO truly wanted to worship he could make it happen, even if special measures were developed or it was brought to him at the White House. He probably does have spiritual advisers of his choice that do come to him.

Thank you for your opening sentence.

For OB's sake and for Christ's sake I hope he is a believer. I would that you would be a believer. Ultimately only God knows a man's heart. I just jumped in and threw my 2 cents in becasue we live in an age where the gospel is being twisted, redefined, and convoluted to a point where craft deception can give anyone including a president false hope. The Scriptures are very clear.

There is no doubt in my mind that if you and I sat down and agreed on the literal, grammatical, historical, and contextual rules of heremeneutics and allowd any passage to say what it meant literaly, understanding Greek grammar, looking at the historical context of both the author and the audience, and kept the passage in its specific context, we would read the same exact thing. The scripture is of no private interpretation - not yours, mine, JD's OB's, etc.

The trouble is that different sets of hermeneutics, ripping a passae out of its context, not knowing the author's aim nor his audience can cause two people to come to a myriad of conclusions, which of course is what happens everyday.

I think Origen of Alexandria and the Alexandrians were wrong in developing an allegorical hermeneutic. Looking at Scripture allegorically makes the interpreter the subjective arbitrator of whatever they want the passage to say.

Non-believers or non-Christians cannot understand the majority of the bible, the bible says so - it is spiritually discerned. Not intellectually, emotionally, philosophically, allegorically, persoanally or subjectively.

Froggie said...

JD,

"However it is seldom brought up that Wright himself is a former Muslim as indicated by Limbaugh."

It is quite difficult to take you seriously when you post bald faced lies as truth. There is not a scintilla of evidence that Wright was ever a Muslim or BO. either.

"Froggie, is it your belief that a supposedly "Christian" church that sends an award to Louis Farrakahn is in any way "regular"?"

The "award" was also given to Wright and Catholic priest Michael Pfleger.
Obviously, many of these religious folk have super egos- look at Jerry Falwel, John Hagee, Newt Gingrich, Palin, et al.
This award was to distinguish people who had worked for the rights of the blacks. It doesn't matter that you don't like Wright. The oppression of blacks has been a long and contentious battle and the scars are plainly visible.

BO has also stated that he has four Christian ministers that he counsels, prays and worships with. He recieves daily devotions from them on his Blackberry.

What I find amusing is that in the approach to the November elections, over the next six weeks, some major rallies will be held across the country and the main speakers/ sponsors will be, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Ralph Reed, Lou Engle, Cindy Jacobs, Mike Huckabee, the AFA, God TV, and more. They are reaching out mainly to established Religious Right groups, Tea Partiers, and Patriot organizations.

The Republican party has finally been overrun with right wing fundamentalist fanatics. I have been referring to them as the Screaming Meemies. This bunch is a hate/ fear mongering, conspiricy advocating bunch of historical revisionists, and they seem to be in control of the GOP.
All of the above mentioned think they are presidential material, but none of them are electable. BO could convert to Islam, get a sex change operation, bleach his skin white, divorce his wife and murder his kids and still win the next election over Palin, et al.

Mitch McConnell, the leader of the Republicans in the senate said on 'Meet the Press' yesterday that he takes BO's word that he is a Christian. Moderate Republicans must be cringing over these recent developments. I have never seen a gang of crazies like this get into unison. At some point in the next two years a firm and viable presidential candidate will have to emerge from the GOP and it will be very interesting to see who that person may be.

The November elections will be interesting though and should be an indication as to the credibility that the Screaming Meemies are garnering in the Republican Party.

GentleSkeptic said...

Nice tempest in a teapot, JD. Adorable.

Gregg said...

It may surprise everyone, but I, who am a conservative and in the past a Republican am disgusted with the Republican Party. I don't think it is much difference than the Democratic party any more. Itis government by ego, for ego-maniacs.

Government needs to be about common sense, justice, freedom for all within common sense and moral judgment. Government should not be by special interest groups, good ole boy clubs, deals supporting pet projects.

Our government is out of control and cannot be fixed. It was a noble experiement but it proved a point, a biblical point, that man cannot govern himself impartialy.

A democracy, a repulic, a monarchy, a dictatorship will not work long (200 years is not bad but it is not long) the innate sin nature will not allow any party to be impartial and moral. We need a theocracy. It is coming one day Christ will return and establish His kingdom where he will rule with a rod of iron. The difference? He will rule righteously!

I hope a third party could emerge with morales, dignity, and immune to speacial interest groups.

I don't know of a republican, let alone Palin, who can take on OB and win. Even loosing my moorings as a former GOP supporter, I am still opposed to a liberal Democrat, or a liberal anybody really.

Making this fight over religion will only cause the GOP to loose and be thought of as fringe lunatics.

Gregg said...

Sorry for the many typos and mispelled words, how I wish the comment box had spell check.

JD Curtis said...

There is not a scintilla of evidence that Wright was ever a Muslim

Demonstrably incorrect. New Republic Reported in '07: Rev. Wright a "Former Muslim"

or BO. either

Which of the following has been thoroughly debunked?

A."He had a Muslim father and an extended Muslim family in Kenya. He was partly raised and educated in Indonesia by a Muslim stepfather. He has Muslim half-sisters and brothers, one of whom continues to reside in a three-by-five-foot hut in Kenya"

B. That Nicholas Kristof reported in a 2007 interview with then candidate Obama that "Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

C. That in a 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulis that Obama openly referred to his "Muslim faith"?

D. That Obama instructed NASA director Charles Bolden to use the agency to reach out to Muslims?

F. That the Los Angeles Times reported in 2007 that Obama's third grade teacher recaled that "Barry was a Muslim"?

G. That Egyptian Foreign Minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit reported earlier this year that "The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim"?

Start with those and when you clear those up, do you doubt for one second I could cite other examples of "evidence" as well?

The "award" was also given to Wright and Catholic priest Michael Pfleger

This would only reinforce my earlier point that this was no "normal" church by any stretch of the imagination unless you would like to point out why.

BO has also stated that he has four Christian ministers that he counsels, prays and worships with. He recieves daily devotions from them on his Blackberry

Would you mind naming them? I would like to examine who these advisors are.

BO could convert to Islam, get a sex change operation, bleach his skin white, divorce his wife and murder his kids and still win the next election over Palin, et al.

Whereas I doubt that he'll even win his own party's nomination next time around.

Mitch McConnell, the leader of the Republicans in the senate said on 'Meet the Press' yesterday that he takes BO's word that he is a Christian

McConnell is a politician. What did you expect?

Reynold said...

Nice red herring, Reynold. If Mr. Obama is a Muslim that is fine, as long as he comes out and says so and does not try to represent himself as something else. His religious affiliation is the least of my concerns. I am much more concerned about his inexperience and his vision for America that is diametrically opposed to mine and that of most Americans.
Please read the title of this post. I'm not the one who started this. As far as I know whether he "misrepresents" himself or not, he's still covered. I'm not an american though, so I'm not sure.

Still...it's been made pretty obvious by the teabaggers and other such folk that his being a "muslim" is not fine.


What IS this "vision" of yours that he's so "diametrically opposed" to by the way?

Besides, George Junior didn't have much experience himself, did he? Gov of Texas, and that's it. That's pretty much average for "experience" that your presidents have. I seem to remember that the man was lousy at running private companies...

JD Curtis said...

Still...it's been made pretty obvious by the teabaggers and other such folk that his being a "muslim" is not fine.

For example?

As far as I know whether he "misrepresents" himself or not, he's still covered. I'm not an american though, so I'm not sure

That was my point.

I stated that if Obama was in fact a Muslim, "that in and of itself would necessarily be a bad thing. It would just reflect upon the perceived honesty of a man who, it seems, might embrace anything from the non-theistic belief system of his parents to liberal Christianity to Islam in order to proffer up the image that he thinks provides him with the best political leverage in whatever situation he so happens to find himself in."

Froggie said...

JD,

Heresay is not evidence.

I've noticed before that your idea of evidence extends to anything any one person says that agrees with you. Fail.

JD Curtis said...

I'm sorry Froggie, but were you going to provide counter evidence to points A-G and also tell me who Obama's "spiritual advisors" are or will you just fade into the background in a vain attempt at saving face?

ATVLC said...

C. That in a 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulis that Obama openly referred to his "Muslim faith"?

STEPHANOPOULOS: But John McCain said that's wrong.

OBAMA: Now, well, look. Listen. You and I both know that the minute that Governor Palin was forced to talk about her daughter, I immediately said that's off limits. And...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But John McCain said the same thing about questioning your faith.

OBAMA: And what was the first thing the McCain's campaign went out and did? They said, look, these liberal blogs that support Obama are out there attacking Governor Palin.

Let's not play games. What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Christian faith.

OBAMA:... my Christian faith. Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either.

What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith -- something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time
.

JD Curtis said...

And let me just give you fair warning Froggie. You best tread lightly here on this blog because I even have Chuck Norris in my corner. :-)

According to Chuck, quote "John Green, University of Akron politics professor and senior fellow with the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, concluded, "I haven't seen any example, and I've been following polling of presidents for a long time now, of where we've seen increased confusion about religiosity the longer they're in office." Link

Froggie said...

*****Facepalm*****

Secret Muslim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Secret Muslim said...

"...still desperately trying to prove that he's a secret Muslim.

This time, it's G. Gordon Liddy and Pamela Geller, pushing a dubiously-sourced claim that President Obama admitted to Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit that he is a Muslim.
...
Geller went ahead and threw the words "I am a Muslim" in quotation marks and attributed the statement to Obama in the title of her post.

If that sounds pretty unlikely, maybe it's because Geller's sources amount to a chain of hearsay with no solid evidence to back themselves up. The closest we get to proof is a blogger -- who "would rather believe" that Obama was "born in Kenya, not the U.S." until he sees "a real live birth certificate" -- telling us his wife happened to catch the Egyptian Foreign Minister on Nile TV saying that Obama said he was a Muslim.

Geller also links to an article in Israel Today that purports to directly quote Gheit's Nile TV appearance, claiming that he said, "The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim."

Needless to say, no one has managed to dig up video of this appearance yet.

So not only is the statement "I am a Muslim" not a direct quotation, but Geller can't even confirm that the Egyptian Foreign Minister said what people said he said about Obama."

Froggie said...

JD,
After eading your blog, I have this obsevation:
I haven't seen any example, and I've been following blogs of conspiracy theorists for a long time now, of where we've seen increased incidence of delusion the longer they blog.

Froggie said...

JD,

I have evidence that you are a delusional conspiracy theorist in a quote from a highly esteemed blogger with a degree in engineering and many years experience in debunking conspiracy theorists concerning your blog.

"I haven't seen any example, and I've been following blogs of conspiracy theorists for a long time now, of where we've seen increased incidence of delusion the longer they blog."

link

Heehee :>

Froggie said...

I can play at that game too! :>

JD Curtis said...

Maybe his is just a chameleon who plays to whatever audience he thinks will benefit him most SM. The video on this link would given any rational person pause to contemplate whether Obama is a Muslim or not.

Would you deny that Obama has Muslim roots?

JD Curtis said...

Wait a minute...

None of you told me that Jeremiah Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ had numerous Muslim congregants....

Was this due to evasion or were you as uninformed as I previously had been?

Quote... "I called the Trinity United Church back in February, 2010 to ask about the requirements of membership. The church receptionist transferred my call to the Director of Membership, who told me that baptism is optional and that Muslims who believe in the prophet Mohammed can be full members. In fact, she reassured me cheerfully, they have plenty of Muslim members.

Never mind that this is theologically impossible, except when one makes one’s own rules. The doctrines of Christianity and Islam are incompatible. Christianity believes that Jesus Christ is one with the Creator, through the doctrine of the Trinity, and that Jesus died on the cross in order to redeem humanity from its sins. Islam calls the Trinity ‘idolatry’ because it sees the Trinity’s three parts as separate entities – three distinct gods – instead of one divine being. Islam also denies Christianity’s claim that Jesus Christ died on the cross, or that he is the unique savior of humanity." Link

What were you saying about this being a "normal" church Froggie?

Froggie said...

Did he tape the conversation?

I didn't think so.

Fail

Secret Muslim said...

None of you told me that Jeremiah Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ had numerous Muslim congregants....

Prove the Trinity United Church of Christ, which was started expressly to keep black Americans away from Islam by the way, has numerous Muslims in it congregation.

GentleSkeptic said...

Secret Muslim, don't you know? JD lurnt it on teh internet.

JD Curtis said...

Here's an idea.

Why don't Secret Muslim and froggie team up with Trinity United Church of Christ and sue the reporter for libel?

It should be a slam dunk, right?

Well, why isnt it happening?

JD Curtis said...

"The Trinity United Church of Christ began to welcome members of the Nation of Islam at a time when its membership was faltering and its identity was up for grabs. Starting in 1960, when Malcolm X made Chicago the headquarters for the Nation of Islam, the black pride movement became widespread among African Americans in the area. Obama’s former church opened itself up to members of the Nation of Islam based on racial identification, along with its anti-white, anti-American, and anti-Jewish ideologies. Accepting such negative values was an accommodation to an irreconcilable and hostile theology that continues to this day, undermining whatever basic spiritual Christian doctrines the Trinity United Church of Christ had before. Compromising standard tenets of the Christian faith could easily explain why the Trinity United Church of Christ accepts Muslims as unconverted members and why Obama himself could still be a Muslim." Link

JD Curtis said...

Obama's preacher sanitizes website
Removes radical 'Black Value System' from church 'About Us' page

ATVLC said...

Obama's preacher sanitizes website
Removes radical 'Black Value System' from church 'About Us' page


Not true, look for yourself.

JD Curtis said...

Are you saying this was never on their webpage?

ATVLC said...

Have a look for yourself.
Here's their "About Us" page.
It's there.

JD Curtis said...

If you go down that list and replace the word "black" with "white", it becomes a bit scary.

Secret Muslim said...

If you replace the word "black" with "Nazi" and "church" with "Nazi Party" and "God" with "Hitler" then it becomes scarier still!

But black or other minorities being committed to God, their families and their community? Not so scary.

Secret Muslim said...

Why don't Secret Muslim and froggie team up with Trinity United Church of Christ and sue the reporter for libel?

You don't remember when Fox "News" won the court case and the law decided falsifying news was not illegal?

http://www.relfe.com/media_can_legally_lie.html

Secret Muslim said...

Link contains:
-video of black man walking through anti-mosque rally yelled at for being "too muslim"-looking.
-Ron Paul giving his opinion on the mosque.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/23/park51

JD Curtis said...

This explains it all...

"Spurred by a recent boom in sales in the region, Bloomberg is expanding its Dubai office into a regional hub, a move that will as much as quadruple its local staff over the next year.

Max Linnington, the company’s newly appointed regional head of Middle East and South Asia, announced the expansion today in advance of a panel discussion with economists and dignitaries in front of the Dubai International Financial Centre’s iconic The Gate building, where Bloomberg has had offices for two years."

Link

JD Curtis said...

Gee, you mean it isn't because he's a clear-thinking person and that he might have a vested interest in appeasing Muslims? Impossible!

JD Curtis said...

Wait, insofar as Obama is concerned, it just gets more interesting!

"This year, the Obama administration will spend nearly $6 million to restore 63 historic and cultural sites, including mosques and minarets, in 55 nations, according to State Department documents.

Under a program established by Congress in 2001, the department will fund at least five projects in as many countries at a cost of more than $271,000.

The contributions include $76,135 for the 16th century Grand Mosque in Tongxin, China, and $67,500 for the 18th century Golden Mosque in Lahore, Pakistan. An additional $62,169 will be spent on restoring a 19th century minaret in Mauritania's ancient city of Tichitt; $50,437 for the Sundarwala Burj, a 16th century Islamic Monument in New Delhi, and $15,450 to restore the 18th century Gobarau Minaret in Katsina, Nigeria." Link

Can I expect somebody to start harping about "Seperation of Church and State" at this time? (Insert the sounds of crickets chirping here)

Reynold said...

JD Curtis said...quoting me:

Still...it's been made pretty obvious by the teabaggers and other such folk that his being a "muslim" is not fine.


For example?
Wow, you have got to be kidding me. Just read that thread, and many more on that idiotic forum.

For example, there's this

This:

And they murmured in disapproval when he passed around a photograph of Obama with his shoes off -- evidence, DiCello said, that the president prays with Muslims but not Christians ("That's because he is a Muslim," one audience member called out).

This:
An April survey by the Pew Research Center showed that 11% of Americans believe Barack Obama is a Muslim, a figure largely unchanged since its polling started in March 2008. Yet 17% of Republicans and 19% of white evangelicals (74% of whom voted for John McCain) insist the President is an adherent of Islam, despite his repeated pronouncements and decades of church attendance to the contrary.

Judging from their signs, a much larger percentage of Tea Baggers maintain this error.


this:
57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president" 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did" Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

How can you be so ignorant of what your own side says??

Reynold said...

Me:
As far as I know whether he "misrepresents" himself or not, he's still covered. I'm not an american though, so I'm not sure


That was my point.

I stated that if Obama was in fact a Muslim, "that in and of itself would necessarily be a bad thing. It would just reflect upon the perceived honesty of a man who, it seems, might embrace anything from the non-theistic belief system of his parents to liberal Christianity to Islam in order to proffer up the image that he thinks provides him with the best political leverage in whatever situation he so happens to find himself in."

Would he even feel he has to do that (providing that's even what he does!) if you people actually gave a rats' ass about your Constitution?

At least the part where it says that there should be no religious tests for public office?

As for all that restoration of religious buildings in other countries, since it's not in the States itself, I have no idea how that would work: Is he trying to promote various religions or just trying to get in good with other countries?

JD Curtis said...

"Evidence for the Proposition That Obama's a Muslim: His father was a Muslim; his mother, an atheist, married two Muslims; he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia from age 6 to 10; and, during the campaign, he proudly posted on his webpage his statement that America is "no longer" a Christian nation, a statement he has repeated as president, while announcing on French TV that America is "one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."

Evidence for the Proposition That Republicans Are Racist: (Nothing so far.)

Evidence for the Proposition That Liberals Lie About Republicans Being Racist: Video of a supporter of Rand Paul's opponent pretending to be a racist Paul supporter; Oregon public school teacher Jason Levin caught operating a website asking liberals to show up at Tea Parties pretending to be right-wing racists; The New York Times' Maureen Dowd claiming she heard Rep. Joe Wilson shout, "You lie, boy!" when he shouted "You lie!" during Obama's speech to a joint session of Congress; and the mainstream media lying about civil rights hero John Lewis being called the N-word 15 times at an anti-ObamaCare protest, with no one ever being able to produce a videotape, despite a $100,000 reward.

If Republicans played by liberal rules, they'd just call Obama a racist, who leaked Valerie Plame's name to the press, is not Sasha's father, and smokes Newports, not Kools." Link to full article

Secret Muslim said...

Oregon public school teacher Jason Levin caught operating a website asking liberals to show up at Tea Parties pretending to be right-wing racist

His plan was to DO NOTHING and watch as "Tea Partiers" tried to weed out the non-existent fakes.
You don't need fake racists at those protests, there's enough people with monkey and witch-doctor signs all ready.

Secret Muslim said...

You must have missed it but Obama is called racist by white right-wingers.

JD Curtis said...

Forget unnamed "right-wingers". I call Obama a racist.

With his "typical white person" grandmother along with the Gates incident, what other evidence does one need?

Secret Muslim said...

So you're calling Obama a racist?

JD Curtis said...

Do you think for one minute that George W. Bush would be allowed to get away with calling someone a "typical black person" and not be roundly denounced for making a racist comment?

Might I ask what color the sky is in the world that you live in?