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Friday, February 5, 2010

One Found Under the Cabbage Leaf

In continuing our discussion of the impact of Jesus Christ upon Western Civilization, the next item I wanted to bring up is that of the unpleasent matter of infanticide. In the book I cited earlier from Dr. D. James Kennedy and Dr. Jerry Newcombe entitled What if Jesus had Never Been Born?, we read on page 10 how cheap life truly was for children before the time of Christ.

"It was a dangerous thing for a baby to be conceived in classical Rome or Greece, just as it is becoming dangerous once more under the influence of the modern pagan. In those days abortion was rampant. abandonment was comonplace: It was common for infirm babies or unwanted little ones to be taken out into the forest or the mountainside, to be consumed by wild animals or to starve or to be picked up by rather strange people who crept around at night, and would use them for whatever perverted purposes they had in mind. Parents abandoned virtually all deformed babies. Many parents abandoned babies if they were poor. They often abandoned female babies because women were considered inferior."

Does anyone really doubt these things? Especially telling for me is the last part concerning how female babies were abandoned so much. With the increase of sex selective abortions, we are seeing a return of this practice not only in China, but in Vietnam where it is reported that "Vietnam's sex ratio at birth (SRB) has been rising steadily for the past few years, from the "average" 105 boys to 100 girls in 1999 to 110:100 in 2006. This year it topped at an average of 112:100." In China it is even higher, about 120:100. Of course this isnt isolated to the East as Sweden allows sex selective abortons as well.
Citing George Grant in his book Third Time Around, Kennedy and Newcombe describe how "valueless life was in ancient Rome...

"According to the centuries old tradition of paterfamilias, the birth of a Roman was not a biological fact. Infants were received into the world only as the family willed. A Roman did not have a child; he took a child. Immediately after birthing, if the family decided not to raise the child-literally, lifting him above the earth-he was simply abandoned. There were special high places or walls where the newborn was taken and exposed to die"


Two items that Kennedy and Newcombe cite as helping to form the Christian outlook on children and the preciousness of life are when Jesus gathered little children unto Himself saying, "Let the little children come unto Me and do not forbid them" (Matthew 19:14). which gave emphasis on the love we are to show for them as Christ Himself gave to them. Another example was when "Jesus said that God was our Father, not only did this radically alter the attitudes of fathers toward children, but fatherhood in this life assumed a completely new form as well." Kennedy and Newcombe go on to cite Sherwood Wirt, one time editor of Billy Graham's Decision magazine who stated in his book, The Social Conscience of the Evangelical..

"Many permanent legal reforms were set in motion by Emporer Constantine (280?-337) and Justinian (483-565) that can be laid to the influence of Christianity. Licentious and cruel sports were checked; new legislationwas ordered to protect the slave, the prisoner, the mutilated man, the outcast woman. Children were granted important legal rights. Infant exposure was abolished. Women were raised from a status of degradation to that of legal protection. Hospitals and orphanages were createdto take care of foundlings. Personal fueds and private wars were put under restraint....Branding of slaves was halted"

Can you honestly say the last time that you heard the word "foundling"? Even secular sources as the one I cite in the preceding link give Christians credit for starting the use of the word. Apparently it doesnt happen that much anymore but to acknowledge as such one must give credit to Christianity because it's highly unlikely that such a change of social consciousness occurred due to any pre-existing Roman or Greek mythology.

30 comments:

tinkbell13 said...

"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see...Your god is dead and no one cares, His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
demands devotion, atrocities done in his name
your god is dead and no one cares
drowning in his own hypocrisy"

Trent Reznor

Mike said...

Yeah, Reznor's a pretty reliable source....

Anyway, may God have mercy on us! Human beings must be the most inhumane creatures in the animal kingdom. I wonder how many non-human animals kill their young at the rate we do. Utterly disgusting!

Ginx said...

Perhaps someday you might like to discuss Hypathia.

Ginx said...

@mike: Infanticide, homosexuality, promiscuity, murder for fun and resources... all are common in nearly every form of life from insects to higher mammals. Sorry to dispel your image of a noble state of nature...

tinkbell13 said...

Well, Mike, he does not listen to anyone, let alone anyone credible. Why not try the point with something simpler and more artistic.... He seems to respond to simplicity much better.

tinkbell13 said...

Oh yeah, and I consider evangelicals with Dr. in front of their names as being credible too. That is another good trick they play. Get a PhD in theology so that they can the magic initials there, and write crap like this. Then, people, who do not see through their agends (JD) read it and consider it credible.I trust Trent Reznor over this shit. Sorry.

JD Curtis said...

Kennedy had an earned PhD from NYU in Philosophy.

JD Curtis said...

Strangely absent from any of the above comments is anything resembling an honest-to-goodness rebuttal. Nothing even vaguely resembling..

You see JD, religion X did much more to elevate that status of children than Christianity and reduce infanticide

I think there's another guy on a different blog who is trying to cram the words [Confucian Buddhist foundling hospital] into a search engine in every way possible. He hasnt been heard from in awhile.

Tracy said...

I relate to what Mike said in that it never ceases to make me sad at the horrors humans have inflicted on one another. It makes me know that evil exists; even if I was not a Christian, I would recognize that evil exists.

I have a close friend who's in his early 40s that is a Chinese citizen and is here teaching at a local university. He's shared a lot with me about the whole thing about only being able to have 1 child per family and wanting it to be a boy.

I appreciate your point JD that Christianity has brought lots of good things to the world. But I am also saddened to know that in the name of Christianity lots of bad stuff has happened as well.

JD Curtis said...

Yes, some bad things happened when charlatans committed acts counter to the message of the Gospel.

My overall argument could be defined that on net balance, Christianity has had a much more positive impact on society than negative. Even more intellectually honest atheists acknowledge this. They just choose to not believe in God for some reason.

Anonymous said...

Even if a religion did have a net positive impact on society, that does not make that religion's god real.

tinkbell13 said...

Both of these men are evangelicals, with PHD's in religion. Sorry, Professors in Fairytales, even from NYU, does not count.

Noone is arguing this stupidity because it is just so far off in JD land, it is not worth the effort. So, if you want that to be it- good job JD. You finally were able to post credible evidence to show us that, once again, if it were not for the love of Jesus, we would all be reduced to flesh eating cannibals that kill their babies.

tinkbell13 said...

This is so far up the stupid ladder, I feel like I lost IQ points reading it.

Seriously JD.... I really mean it. If you want to learn something, deepen your faith and be able to contextualize arguments, I would be more than happy to help you. My offer will always stand.

JD Curtis said...

World religion, I stand corrected.

Irregardless Tink, perhaps you can cite examples of other world religions that did more to...

A. Bring cannibalistic tribes, kicking and screaming into the 21st century whereas they eventually stop chowing down on one another. Even to the point of ding in their mission to end such a practice. Use Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, Shintoism, whatever religion you would like to compare it to and tear my point to shreds. And...

B. Which world religion clearly and demonstrably did more to end infanticide than Christianity.

There. Show me where I am wrong.

The Maryland Crustacean said...

J.D.: I am afraid there is no arguing with historical revisionists and deconstructionists who need to come to their pre-determined conclusions.

Anonymous said...

Even if a religion did have a net positive impact on society, that does not make that religion's god real.

White Christian and Proud said...

It is the duty of White Christians to bring White Mans Religion to the blacks and the yellows who if left alone would be eating babies in seconds flat. History was provewd it again and again. It has power to sooth beasts. White man has Power because of Christ. The hoards have not overrun us because of Christ.
Stay True.

Ginx said...

Ah yes, the White Man's burden...

Anonymous said...

Mahabharata (Shanti Parva sub-parvas 86-88) Laws against infanticide, child abandonment, and how temples must help abandoned children and orphans.

JD Curtis said...

Even if a religion did have a net positive impact on society, that does not make that religion's god real

The topic is the impact of Christianity on civilization. Youre right. The existance of god is a seperate issue.

WC & P, the future of Christianity appears to be increasingly brown and yellow as Christianity is experiencing growth in Africa, China and other countries as the West becomes increasingly post-Christian.

Mahabharata (Shanti Parva sub-parvas 86-88) Laws against infanticide, child abandonment, and how temples must help abandoned children and orphans

Outstanding, please provide a reputable link to the relevant quote. Let's examine how this translated into action in the society that this was supposedly decreed. Sheesh, it only took 20 comments for someone to attempt to make a relevant point. Are you paying attention Tink?

tinkbell13 said...

What is the point? I told you that I was losing IQ points reading this crap, and I will not argue it.

Please, learn something.

Ginx said...

tink, for you own sanity... don't give JD more than 3 lines anymore.

GCT said...

Actually, it's patriarchy that makes couples want to have male offspring...patriarchy that Xianity has no problem with.

The word "foundling" has no basis in Xianity, it means simply an abandoned baby, and there have been plenty of those from Xians over the years as well as non-Xians.

You're grasping at straws and wholly ignorant of the world and world history. Like Tink says, crack open a real book sometime and learn something.

GCT said...

"Yes, some bad things happened when charlatans committed acts counter to the message of the Gospel."

Those charlatan bastards! I bet they weren't even really Scottish either!

tinkbell13 said...

Ginx- So true. And, you are right.

Anonymous said...

The topic is the impact of Christianity on civilization.

Really? Then why did you make comments like:
...intellectually honest atheists acknowledge this. They just choose to not believe in God for some reason.
?

JD Curtis said...

Intellectually honest atheists acknowledge the positive impact that Christianity has had on civilization. Here's one such example

Atheists choose not to believe in God for some reason. I guess that certain atheists can rattle of ,
several reasons why they don't believe in God.

GCT said...

I'm waiting for a single reason that is logically consistent, rational, and not abusive to history, science, or common sense why I should believe in god.

GCT said...

Still waiting. I know you've been here. You've posted a new entry. You've made numerous comments, yet this thread goes neglected ever since I asked for a single reason. I thought you had tons of obvious reasons, but perhaps not? Perhaps you can't even come up with a single reason. That's pretty sad.

GCT said...

Still waiting hypocrite. What are you afraid of? Can't back up your claims? Thought so.