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Monday, February 13, 2012

What is Wayne Besen afraid of?

Apparently, media darling and poster child for radical, gay activism, Wayne Besen has a problem with the truth over at Truth Wins Out.org. Last night, he and I got into an interesting discussion over at his blog on the site and I must say, I was shocked at the level of candor exhibited by Besen. During the course of the discussion, I asked the following...



"Question…

Was homosexuality depathologized by the APA in 1973 through any sort of groundbreaking ‘research’ or was it through pressure, threats and intimidation brought about via radical gay activism? If it’s the former, exactly what study changed everyone’s mind in the psychological community?




I’d really like an answer here.
Comment by JD Curtis — February 12, 2012 @ 9:25 pm

JD:
Get with the times. Chambers latest stat is .1%.
http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2012/02/21908/
The activists put pressure on the APA to review the research. Once that occurred it was easy to see that homosexuality was not an illness.

You have everything ass backwards.

And, yes, they do pray away the gay. You really don’t know a thing about this topic, do you?
Comment by Wayne Besen — February 12, 2012 @ 9:35 pm

Are you really going to make me listen to over 2 hours of discussion to see the context of the relevant statement by Chambers? I’ll be more specific. Does Chambers imply this in a manner that a recovering alcoholics are exactly 1 weekend-bender away from being an alcoholic again? (If you know the point in the interview where the quote occurs, please tell me and I’ll check it out)

The activists put pressure on the APA to review the research

Thank you for your honesty here. I’m not aware of a specific study.

Once that occurred it was easy to see that homosexuality was not an illness

Let me get this straight. Once gay activists put, quote ‘pressure’ on the psychologists, the truth then became clear? I’m not trying to define your position for you here, so a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ would be appreciated.
Comment by JD Curtis — February 12, 2012 @ 9:47 pm"





As the evening wore on, it became apparent that not only was Mr Besen not going to answer my direct question to him, but that he had made a slip-up. The last thing anyone over at Truth Wins Out wants to hear about is the truth, and such an admission by Besen, as refreshingly honest as it was, only served to buttress my earlier point that homosexuality was depathologized "through pressure, threats and intimidation brought about via radical gay activism" rather than by any actual "research". Before turning in for the night, I copied and pasted this exchange between Wayne and I for safekeeping and sure enough, the particular exchange had been scrubbed from that discussion thread by morning.




So anytime somebody mentions the site Truth Wins Out, just refer them to this entry for the actual TRUTH. They cannot win their arguments with facts and instead they resort to censorship.




PS. Earlier today I attempted to give Wayne an opportunity to explain why he deleted the above exchange, but when I asked him why he did so over on his blog, my question was quickly deleted by the resident Thought Police.


14 comments:

JD Curtis said...

My goodness, the Pink Hand is really hurling the metaphorical feces over at Wayne's site. My favorite comment was this one...

"..no dissent is allowed on the truth that blacks are not inferior to whites no dissent is allowed on the truth that gays are not inferior to heteroesexuals"

Setting aside for a moment I had not referred to anyone as 'inferior', could you please point me to the couseling center in which reparative therapy is utilized to "Pray Away the Negro" with it's counselees?

Wayne Besen said...

Dear JD:

I am not afraid of your churlish questions. However, it was Sunday and apparently unlike you, I have a life.

Watching the Miami Heat game and Desperate Housewives with my husband is a significantly higher priority than suffering a fool on a weekend.

Just because you had nothing better to do with your weekend, I'm supposed to give up mine?

Um, I don't think so.

JD Curtis said...

If youre not afraid, then why did you...

A. delete my question, and

B, refuse to answer a fairly simple and straghtforward yes-no question?

Ross said...

Good luck with debating with these people. You'll need it.

Mike S. said...

Perhaps no research was needed to de-pathologize homosexuality because there was no objective reason for it to be considered a pathology in the first place. There is no unambiguous, universal standard by which to identify a mental disorder. What counts as deviant behavior is even more subjective. A behavior is a disorder/deviant if it impacts the person negatively in many areas of his or her life, or better, if it stresses the person in the living or his or her roles. This stress is the only thing objective, and it is of course easy to see that one's culture can have as much to do with that as any inherent badness in the behavior itself.

JD Curtis said...

Mike, by the metrics of clinical depression and suicide alone one would have to wonder if homosexuality should classify as a mental disorder.

Mike S. said...

What about the obvious question of how much our culture has to do with said 'metrics', rather than depression being an intrinsic feature of homosexuality. To use an analogy, it would be like researching depression among black slaves in 19th century America, and upon discovering that blacks were more prone to depression than whites, concluding there must be something inherently ill about being black, all the while ignoring the obvious social reasons that might have contributed to that effect. Homosexuals have been social outcasts at best and 'abominations' at worst for most of Western history. Do you not suppose that might have just a little effect on the statistics to which you refer?

Bisch said...

looks like Wayne put your and his comments back up...

JD Curtis said...

it would be like researching depression among black slaves in 19th century America, and upon discovering that blacks were more prone to depression than whites

Actually, the condition of 'slavery' is changeable whereas blackness is not.

Homosexuals have been social outcasts at best and 'abominations' at worst for most of Western history

Mike,

Where are suicide rates demonstrably MUCH higher among males? In secularized Western European countries where gay marriage has been a reality for over a decade or in Western countries where homosexuality is not necessarily illegal but not readily accepted either and gay marriage is not in place?

Mike, many groups of people experience the feeling of being 'social outcasts' ranging from the mentally retarded, physically disabled and those quite short in stature and others.

Are any of these other groups committing suicide at anywhere near the rate of homosexuals?

JD Curtis said...

looks like Wayne put your and his comments back up

I try to engage them B, but I guess no dissenting opinions are allowed over there and they just delete my comments.

Wayne,

You are an intellectual fraud and a 1st Rate Pussy Bar None.

I've banned like-minded lemmings such as yourself on this site, but only after repeatedly refusing to answer direct questions when posed to them concerning their assertions.

Enjoy your circle-jerk of an echo chamber and if ever you decide you might actually have a pair, let me know and I'll set up on online debate.

Bigot.

Mike S. said...

"Are any of these other groups committing suicide at anywhere near the rate of homosexuals?"

I honestly don't know, it's not a subject I've ever given to study. But I suppose that since my generalizations were met with reference presumably to specific data/research, it would be necessary for me to assess that directly, which I haven't done. From where have you gotten your information?

JD Curtis said...

I would only say that homosexuals have not cornered the market on being picked on and bullied. We never hear of a suicide 'epidemic' amongst these other groups because they do not appear to be offing themselves at anywhere near the rate that gays do, despite not having any sort of organized ad campaigns on their behalf.

The only country where I notice that has devoted serious scholarship to such extremely high rates of gay suicide is highly secular Norway where about 1 in 5 young gay men have attempted suicide at least once.

If you were to guess which county in California has by far the highest rate of suicide rate among the 17-24 year old set and you said San Francisco, you would be correct with a rate of 9 per 100,000. For comparison, San Mateo county had less than half that rate at 4.1 per 100,000.

JD Curtis said...

"We will define a tolerant society where homogamy or civil unions are recognized; here are six tolerant societies: Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, France, Sweden, the Netherlands. Next we will define moderate religious society, where homosexuality is generally considered to be wrong, but not illegal: Ireland, USA, Italy, Mexico, Honduras, Paraguay...

According to the World Health Organization, the average male suicide rate for tolerant secular societies is 21.6 per 100,000. The average male suicide rate for moderate religious societies is 9.6 per 100,000." Link

JD Curtis said...

I really am open to any sort of even-handed research into the matter Mike, but please allow me to ask you something.

Do you actually believe for one moment that Gay Inc. would ever encourage such a study and want the 'Truth' to "Win Out' in this matter? If the truth actually did win out, then might it possibly lead to a re-examination of whether homosexual behavior should be pathologized if it were to be studied like any other type of deviance under the sun and apart from any political baggage?