Where's the birth certificate

Free and Strong America

Friday, April 30, 2010

Oklahoma is OK

While extolling (not trolling, Tink ;)) the virtue of the Baptist Press to fellow blogger "Froggie", I came across an interesting article out of Oklahoma concerning the new anti-abortion bill there.

"The Oklahoma legislature finished April 27 overriding vetoes of two pro-life bills, only four days after Gov. Brad Henry had rejected them.

The Senate voted 36-12 on both measures. One of the bills requires an ultrasound before an abortion, and the other protects a doctor from a "wrongful birth" lawsuit for failing to persuade the mother to have an abortion. The latter is designed to protect unborn babies who are diagnosed with disabilities and might be considered by some pro-choicers to be better off dead.

The Senate actions enacting the bills came a day after the House of Representatives voted to override the vetoes. The House voted 81-14 for the ultrasound legislation and 84-12 for the "wrongful birth" measure."

Hurray for Oklahoma! Perhaps requiring those seeking an abortion might cut down on incidences like the following report out of Italy from 2 days ago...

"The 22-week infant was found breathing a day after the operation. He died one day later in intensive care at a hospital in the mother's home town of Rossano, in southern Italy.

The mother, pregnant for the first time, had opted for an abortion after prenatal scans revealed that the foetus had a cleft lip and palate, according to reports in the Italian media. The condition is treatable with surgery.

The baby - weighing just 11oz - survived the procedure, carried out on Saturday in the Rossano Calabro hospital, but was left by doctors to die.

He was discovered alive the following day – some 20 hours after the operation – by Father Antonio Martello, the hospital chaplain, who had gone to pray beside his body.

He found that the baby, wrapped in a sheet with his umbilical cord still attached, was moving and breathing.

The priest raised the alarm and doctors immediately arranged for the infant to be taken to a specialist neo-natal unit at the neighbouring Cosenza hospital, where he died on Monday morning.

The story has caused outrage in Italy, where many have called for the country's abortion laws to be changed.

On Thursday, Archbishop Santo Marciano of Rossano-Cariati, criticised the "arbitrary superficiality" of hospital staff and said the Catholic country should reflect on its attitudes both to the unborn and to the disabled."

Am I alone here in seeing how outrageous Western society has become in treating it's most vulnerable members? The baby in Italy was delivered after 22 weeks. The above illustration shows a baby after 12 weeks. Can we try to arrive at some sort of middle ground that many of us can agree on concerning abortion procedures?


photogr said...


There is no common ground on aborton. Once there is a heartbeat, you have a human being created. I am pro life and make no apologies for that.

Abortions should only be considered in life threatening situations, incest, or forceable rape at a very early stage. Not after we have a hearbeat. At 22weeks ( nearly 6 months), it is just plain murder.

This brings to mind a story about a Gianna Jessen whose mother decided to abort her at 22 weeks. Surprisingly, Gianna Jensen failed to quitely die from the abortion attempt. Her story is certainly heart warming. You can find two videos she made on You Tube by just typing in Gianna Jessen in the search column.

photogr said...

OOPS Sorry. It was not on you tube.

Here is the link:


JD Curtis said...

I see what you mean photogr. It's a passionate issue on both sides of it.

I thought my pastor had an interesting take on it. He stated that he really doesnt want any abortion procedures. However, if he was in a position to actually affect the law, like an elected State Representative, and the best he could possibly do would be a ban on all procedures after the first trimester, then he would be pragmatic and accept that. Knowing of course, full well he did the best he could under the circumstances.

George W. Bush actually signed a ban on barbaric partial birth abortions.

Obama has....

"In an executive order, ...officially scrapped the Mexico City Policy that protected taxpayers from involvement in overseas abortions for eight years. Now, Obama will send hundreds of millions of dollars to groups that aggressively promote abortions on a worldwide scale." Link

God help us all.

Froggie said...

JD said,
"Can we try to arrive at some sort of middle ground that many of us can agree on concerning abortion procedures?"

I am very surprised you would be willing to compromise, unlike Photogr:

He states:
"There is no common ground on aborton. Once there is a heartbeat, you have a human being created."

First of all, the blastocyst is a glob of cells that does not even have blood until about 14 days. The bible states on several occasions that "The life is in the blood."

Next, at 14 days there is a microscopic amount of blood and the proto heart started pumping about 21 days.

Adam Nardoli said...

But according to the Bible the soul is breath so until a baby is born it has no soul.
Which is one of the reasons why God doesn't consider abortion murder.
"The life is in the blood." That's obviously wrong. Sperm is alive. It has life. No one denies this.

JD Curtis said...

But according to the Bible the soul is breath so until a baby is born it has no soul

Yet I'm of the opinion that life begins at conception. In support of this stance, check this out...

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" Psalm 51:5

And also...

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

I would agree with my pastor that I wouldnt want any abortions taking PLACE. However, if pragmatically, the best that could be dne would be a ban on any procedures after the first trimester, then that's what I would have to accept.

One other thing, don't accept the aternative history/Hollywood myth of women dying en masse during a "Backalley Coathanger Abortion" myth. It's been most thoroughly debunked.


tinkbell13 said...

I have nothing to say about any of this. Fact is, a woman's choice is nobody's business but her own. I am happy that I live in a country where we respect the right of the individual to decide what is best for them.

The Catholic Apologist said...

Hi JC,

Yes, you are right. People like tinkbel3 just don't get it. How someone like tinkbell can read what you wrote, then turn around and beat the drumb of "A women's choice" I just don't understand.

It is so very unfortunate, horrible in fact, that people look upon a child, not as a human being with rights, and dignity, but as a "choice." (Head shake.)

Adam Nardoli said...

"a child"

It's not a child.

Gandolf said...

CA said..."It is so very unfortunate, horrible in fact, that people look upon a child, not as a human being with rights, and dignity, but as a "choice." (Head shake.) "

But part of the dignity can also be about making the choice, CA.

Im personally a pro life person and i certainly dont do much rejoicing when any abortions take place....But then i doubt many people do much rejoicing with matters of abortions, specially most of all most women who sadly happen to become involved in them.

But it is not always such a clear cut easy choice,there is much to be considdering.And very many differing situations involved.

Faithful folks might suggest look its easy,simply dont have abortions.The choice should always be pro life,and somehow the child will be fine.There is people many whom are christians always willing to adopt if need be.

How ever this is not always such a great choice for the child.Some may be adopted by nasty people including nasty folks of faith,and im quite sure there is a number of people who have infact suffered much more in the long run,than maybe they would have had to, had they simply been aborted.

Believe it or not i can honestly say im one person who if i had had the choice, considdering what a struggle my life became,would serriously considder maybe much prefering abortion.Abortion id say is far much less longterm pain and suffering, than endless sadness pain and many sleepless nights caused by trauma experienced though experiences caused by being born into abusive faith, that led to me having problems of P.T.S.D. along with other on going problems that have made life kinda like a type of hell ! on earth.

And look folks, facing serrious depression that has been caused by past experiences, and cannot simply be cured by any pills or psychologists, is no easy road when its often been paved with facing thoughts of suicide along the way.

But i didnt have that choice to make of pro life verses abortion,i relied on the choice of my parents and specially the choices of my mother.

So its just not a matter of always being quite as clear cut as some would maybe like to think/suggest it might be.

Naturally of course id say sure! its far better if people simply dont get pregnant without planning and thinking about it enough.But in saying that im not about to lay all blame on my parents, who infact were also just pawns of certain situations in life that they happeded to inherit.And im not about to lay all blame on my parents for maybe not always making such great choices and decisions.

Most people honestly do wish to do their best.Life just isnt always something thats always quite so equal for everyone is it.And also being humans we can make mistakes

Gandolf said...

Sorry JD ....I do honestly try to abide by your wishes,and keep posts short

Doesnt always work out for me.