Where's the birth certificate

Free and Strong America

Sunday, August 2, 2009

Certifigate just became that much more interesting

This just in. While surfing the net just now, I came across this little item at VD's blog.
"California attorney Orley Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barak Obama's eligibility to serve as president has released a copy of what proports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and had filed a new motion in US District Court for it's authentification. The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Hussein Obama and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as August 4, 1961 and the hospital of birth as the Coast General Hospital in Mombassa Kenya. No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya. It was allegedly used as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.
WND was able to obtain other birth certificates from Kenya for purposes of comparison and the documents appear to be identical."
Of course we still don't know about the authenticity of this document so it's too early to say anything. The most interesting part of this entire episode will be watching the White House try and spin this as just another crank who doesnt know what he's talking about. Is anybody out there willing to wager that the MSM will pick this one up and actually run with it?


Reynold said...

Only to make fun of it, you want to know why?

It's a forgery.

How do we know?

The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Hussein Obama and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya. Read on...

There's just one teensy little problem here -- The Republic of Kenya didn't exist until 1964 -- three years after Obama's birth.


H.H. said...

The White House doesn't need to "spin" anthing. This is just another crank who doesn't know what they're talking about. You aren't gullible to actually believe Taitz, are you?

JD Curtis said...

It appears that this case is a forgery. I meant to write an addendum but didnt get around to it. If only Obama would provide his long form certificate of live birth, then all of this would go away. Interesting that he doesnt.

That would be enough for me personally. Others, however would like to see

A. Selective Service Registration
B. Occidental College Records
C. Columbia Thesis paper
D. Harvard college records
E. Medical records
F. Law practice client list
G. Record of baptism


None of which were ever released.

Reynold said...

He did provide it.

Even Snopes has a link to it...

That won't matter though, will it?

JD Curtis said...

What Obama has released is a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth, not a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth. There are examples of the certification being obtained by people not actually born in Hawaii. Click here and scroll down to the bottom to see the difference between the 2 documents. The "certificate" is the real deal and Obama is not providing that for us.

Interesting that you cite snopes.com

If you happened to read online news sites such as United Press International or the popular hoax-busting Snopes.com anytime up until Tuesday night, you would have seen definitive statements that President Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.

But checking back now, both sites are suddenly providing an entirely different location, the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children, also in the capital of the Aloha State.

Within hours of a WND report revealing Obama's birth being reported at two different Hawaiian hospitals, both sites changed their information to suddenly fall in line with the president's claim that he was born at Kapi'olani.

Here is the screen shot from Snopes on July 7, before WND's report was posted:

Click here to see the screenshots after snopes.com engaged in historical revisionism at the behest of whom? Ooops, I mean, corrected their error when they reliazed that they werent apparently towing the lastest party line as the officially sanctioned version.

JD Curtis said...

Odd that there is no question whatsoever that George W. Bush was born at the Grace New Haven Hospital in CT, and that Bill Clinton was born at the Julia Chester Hospital in Hope, Arkansas. Reynold? Between Queens Medical Center and the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children, which one has a nice sign out front proclaiming their hospital to be the birthplace of The Dear Leader?
A. Queens Hospital
B. Kapi'olani Medical Center or
C. Neither

Reynold said...

Those other guys never had problems with their birth certificates probably because nobody harrassed them for their birth certificates in the first place.

Not even Ann Coulter buys this conspiracy theory. She blames the wrong people of course, but still...

You comment about my using "Scopes"? You use WingNut Daily, the same people who fell for a hoax about the Kenyan "birth certificate.

They also publish stuff like this, and the editor of WingNut Daily had once said that it's ok to pray for Obama to fail.

Are those people effing nuts? And I'm supposed to take their word for anything about Obama? When the EDITOR of that rag is praying that Obama fails, that kind of bloody well disqualifies him and his "news magazine" from any chance of being you know, objective.

Trusting them? Bar that...get a source that isn't batshit crazy and at least half-assed objective and we'll see.

One thing: a "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are the same thing:
They further claim that the document he produced last year is a 'fake'. Hawaiian government issues a 'certification of live birth' Conspiracy theorists refuse to believe that a certification is the same as one of a birth certificate despite Janice Okibu, State Department of Health Services spokeswoman for Hawaii stating that they are 'both one in the same kind'.

Look...he won the election. Suck it up.

We had to, for eight years under your guy. Then a democrat gets in, and immediately you people start attacking him like bloody crazy, when he hadn't done anything yet! People like Limbaugh were saying that they hope that Obama "fails" in everything he does, and as I noted earlier, the editor of WingNut Daily had once said that it's ok to pray for Obama to fail.

JD Curtis said...

I couldnt care less what Ann Coulter thinks. I rarely read her articles.

Insofar as "falling for a hoax", at no time did WND authenticate the document in question. They merely reported that one had been produced.

One thing: a "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are the same thing.

Really? Then simply link up the site that has the official, state of Hawaii (long form) certificate displayed. Please remember this is the one which mentions hospital born at and the attending physician or midwife.

for eight years under your guy.

Are you assuming that I'm some sort of big GWB fan? GWB started what Obama is expanding upon now. If GWB were president now (or even McCain for that matter) I'm sure we would still be on the road to socialism although at a slower and more measured pace and probably called something like "compassionate conservatism" to create obstrufication with the public.

JD Curtis said...

Reynold, if you really are the "skeptical" type than I would appreciate you reading the linked article from my Aug 5th entry and post your opinions about it on that thread.

Reynold said...

One thing: a "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are the same thing.

Really? Then simply link up the site that has the official, state of Hawaii (long form) certificate displayed. Please remember this is the one which mentions hospital born at and the attending physician or midwife.
Talk to the Hawaii Dept of Health:

From factcheck.org:

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

So, your people's problem is not with Obama, it seems, but the Hawaii Dept of Health. Irrelevent though, since what is publically available, IS acceptable to the State Department. Why is it not acceptable for you guys? The only birth certificate I've got is the "short form" myself.

You people need to get a life and start worrying about important issues instead of trying this childish end-run around the democratic process that you profess to appreciate.

Obama is a citizen of your country, he is your president...deal with it.

JD Curtis:
Are you assuming that I'm some sort of big GWB fan?
My mistake; you religous conservatives generally go for the Republical candidate while going insane over any democrat.

About your August 5 post:
I don't really care...What does PZ Myers actions have to do with anything that we were talking about? He was protesting the Catholic idiocy of cracker worship. Do some reading on his blog and elsewhere for the background on it before you go all off about how "nihilistic" he is.

He also "desecrated" a Koran, and one of Dawkins books. Only the Catholics wigged out on him.

JD Curtis said...

Don't get me wrong Reynold. I'm willing to suspend doubt for a moment and accept the possibility the guy WAS actually born in Hawaii if his not releasing a (even redacted) copy of his long form was the only doubt that I had.

But it gets more curious....

Why did his own campaign website state (in addition to Scopes and UPI) that he was born at Queens Medical Center only to change it later? (Click here for the screen shot) I don't really know you but I'm sure that you never had a problem identifying the hospital you were born in. All of this is totally avoidable if only he or his designee would release a redacted copy of the long form. I would drop it and it seems that he is spending more time fighting the release of the long form document when releasing it would be far easier and shut everybody up.

Here's something else that gives me pause to think. The Snopes article you link to contains the birth announcement that states the couple (supposedly Obama's parents) resided at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway. The lady who lives next door at 6075 Kalanianaole Highway, "Beatrice Arakaki affirmed she was a neighbor of the address listed. She has lived at her current residence of 6075 Kalanianaole Highway from before 1961 to the present...Arakaki told Baro's investigators she had no recollection of Obama being born or of the family living next door having a black child born to a white mother...Baro's investigators were unable to locate any current or past resident of Kalanianaole Highway who could recall Obama or his family living at the address listed in the Sunday Advertiser announcement." Link

Heck, even the LEFT is junmping on the bandwagon asking him to release his long form but to no avail Link

I guess what I'm saying is that if you really are someone who is a "skeptic", then maybe you would see whay I would have a bit os skepticism myself in this matter.

We havent even gotten into the sworn affidavit of Bishop Ron McRae yet and where the heck did CNN chief Jon Klein come up with the cockamamie story that his (Obama's) birth certificate (long form) was destroyed only to be corrected by Hawaii state officials? Link

JD Curtis said...

I'll post something later under the Aug 5th post on that thread. You can respond if you like. If you really do live in Canada, then maybe you can give some insight as to the veracity of the posts of the last 2 days.

Reynold said...

You keep linking to World Net Daily...did I not tell you the problems those people have? Their editor outright hopes and prays, and advised other people to pray for Obama to fail.

Doesn't that set off any alarm bells for you about how "objective" and truth-telling their going to be? Any links from those clowns that I get from anywhere, I ignore unless I can get verification from somewhere else. All those "third" person stories that they dig up don't mean bugger-all to me, since those people have shown that they have no journalistic ethics. And no, I'm not just referring to Farah's "praying" for Obama to "fail".

JD Curtis said...

You cite Snopes.com. It seems that other (left leaning) news sources cite them as some sort of impartial end to all arguement resource. Who does Snopes receive their funding from?

JD Curtis said...

Is this the article by Joseph Farah that you are referring to?

Reynold said...

If you don't like Snopes, then how's about the gov't links that the "factcheck" people gave?

It's in my last post.

And yeah, that Joseph Farah article is what I'm referring to. Even if one ignores all the other weird shit that WND has, that article by their friggen editor shows that they have no objectivity whatsoever, something that Snopes still has to some extent.

(Which is why I looked for sites that had links to gov't sites in that instance). I try to get as close as possible to the information sources as I can.

That's why I hate having to use Wikipedia, unless they have links to more "official" sources that deal with their topics. Wikipedia is too easily corrupted.

JD Curtis said...

Who was it that finally sank John Edwards? The NY Times? The Washington Post? No, it was the National Inquirer. I know it's sad but to think that the vast majority of media outlets AREN'T in the pocket of the Dems would be foolhardy.

I don't use Wiki either. If I can't find what I need then I go to them and check their sources on a givin subject and take it from there.

Reynold said...

I notice that you've said nothing about either the factcheck site or the gov't linked sites they linked to which refute your "birther" claims.

I also notice that you've made the odd and refuted insinuation that the media a controlled by liberals. Just do a google check on "myth" "liberal media". Even if you don't like the sources, look at the media examples they give.

While you're at it, you may want to have a look at all the conservative media that's out there:

Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, the WND, Fox News, all the religious radio and tv shows, the National Review, Tucker Carlson, George Will, Robert Novak, etc.

BTW, what evidence do you have that Snopes is liberal, as you've implied?

JD Curtis said...

I was referring to the MAINSTREAM media. Traditional outlets in this country such as nearly every single editorial board of nearly every single newpaper in this country, ABC, CBS, NBC and not to mention MSNBC, CNN etc.

Other examples I could cite are when a politician is disgraced, (William Jefferson, Elliot Spitzer) they seem to conveniently forget to mention the party affiliation of said disgraced politician, but never so when they are a republican. Other examples...

"But worse than lying about their bias, the mainstream media decides what is news and what is not. Dan Rather refused to even mention Gary Condit and his missing paramour congressional aide, Chandra Levy and then the mainstream media pretended that Gary Condit was somehow a "conservative." When the mainstream media covers a scandal, if the crook is a Democrat that fact is almost always omitted. Even more surreal, organizations like CNN have even taken their own stories, which inadvertently mentioned that a malfeasant politician was a Democrat, and edited out the "Democrat" in later versions of the news story. When the malodorous Rod Blagojevich was exposed, New York Times reporters, who wrote nine paragraph stories on the scandal, seemed to forget his party affiliation. Omitting or even re-editing stories to delete crucial facts is the second greatest sin of the mainstream media." Link

The list goes on and on. Simply google [party affiliation members mainstream media}.

Snopes receives it's funding from the Annenberg Foundation. So does factcheck.org.

Insofar as Factcheck being left leaning Link

Insofar as Snopes having a liberal tilt Link it's a 5 page article that lists numerous examples.

Ref: the Obama eligibility question, I'm not sure that youre aware of this one "The State of Hawaii, statute 338, allows foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to get a Hawaiian birth certificate. Mr. Obama has never presented any corroborating evidence that he was actually born in Hawaii. His paternal grandmother in Kenya and the ambassador of Kenya made statements that he was born in Kenya.....The image that Mr. Obama has posted on the Internet was not a valid birth certificate, but rather a limited value document, called Short Version Certification of Live Birth. The Certification of Live Birth does not name a hospital, name a doctor, have any signatures or a seal of the Hawaiian Health Department on the front of the document. This document is usually given to parties that don't have a proper hospital birth certificate and it is given based on a statement of one relative only. Even the state of Hawaii doesn't give full credit to these documents" Link

Feel free to post here whenever you want. If this entry cycles off in the next day or so, let me know if any of the other posts interest you.

Reynold said...

If you don't like factcheck, or snopes, how's about the gov't links that the factcheck people have, as I listed in a previous post?

As they point out, the Hawaii Dept of Health considers the short and the "long" form to be legal.

Now, your last link to WND mentions that it was Joseph Farah who wrote an article: Farah wrote in a column criticizing not just the website's pronouncements on whether or not a story is a myth, but also how its writer (usually Barbara Mikkelson) determines what does and doesn't qualify as a reliable source.

Sorry, but as I said, anything WND, especially by Farah has NO credibility with me, and he shouldn't for anyone else. You already know why.

To [§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.:

(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

If the guy's parents are legal residents of the US, then isn't he? Even if we listen to the "birthers" and assume that the man was not born in Hawaii itself?

Just to note: Even someone from one of your sources, the American Thinker site believes that this is nuts.

Reynold said...

In other words, if the state of Hawaii accepts the guy's parents as citizens, it looks like they accept the kid as a citizen too. So, even if by some chance, he was not born in Hawaii, who cares? Hawaii doesn't.

JD Curtis said...

In order to satisfy the Constitutional requirement, he had to have been born in the US. This is without even getting into his father not being a citizen and his mother being too young to confer citizenship. Thats another issue completely and I'll leave that to the lawyers. The point is this is all completely avoided if he submits even a redacted copy of his long form COLB. It would be dropped yet he refuses to do so.

Reynold said...

Read what I had posted ealier: It's not Obama, that's refusing, it's the Hawaii Dept of Health.

They have no problem with the certificate of live birth, and a birth certificate being the same thing, so why should anyone else? The Hawaii Dept of Health is a gov't institution after all.